Understanding the European WWII Airwar

"RacinBob" (racinbob) 09/15/2020 at 08:14 • Filed to: None

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Read these in this order to understand the WWII airwar from the German and British sides. 

I found War Diaries in a Florida used book store. Some takeaways are that the Germans thought of the Luftwaffe as an extension of the Army. Their plans we always centered around planes as dive bombers and very few of their planes had decent long range capability to their detriment over Britain and Russia.

Somebody recommended Fighter to me here. Fighter reveals how the Spitfire was a dying man’s last great work. The political infighting in the British Airforce regarding “Big Wing” tactics, and their cat and mouse game regarding the British usage of scarce quantities of men and material.

The common thing for both sides was the loss of men. German bomber crews were chewed up in slow, undergunned aircraft. British fighter pilots tossed into battle after 10 hours flying in fighter rated aircraft going against experienced German pilots. Not exactly a fair fight for either side. Tough duty for all.

Thomas Donohue > RacinBob 09/15/2020 at 08:41

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I learned everything I needed to know about WWII fighers in Europe from MS-DOS.

Seriously, I did learn some geography!

50ford500 > Thomas Donohue 09/15/2020 at 09:14

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Is that from the old LucasArts flight sim series? I always loved them and I wish they would rerelease them because I’d buy them in a heartbeat 

Thomas Donohue > 50ford500 09/15/2020 at 09:16

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I played two, this was from Dynamix apparently.  I can’t remember the other but I loved it.  My have been later on Windows 3.1

RacinBob > Thomas Donohue 09/15/2020 at 09:18

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1. I read that the typical gunshot in an engagement was 3 seconds. Was that your experience?

2. What is the battle formation. Were the German fighters up high over the bombers, or were they mixed in with them. Also what formations were the British using?

3, If you were in a ME-109, could you rip the elevator or wings off pulling out of a dive? That was a real concern that I wonder if the game reveals.....

4. Speaking of the 109, it was woefully short of fuel and ammunition stores. Also it’s cannon was pretty worthless. Did any of that show up in the game?  

The Ghost of Oppo > RacinBob 09/15/2020 at 09:20

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If you like Spitfires there is a newer documentary on Netflix about them , the name currently escapes me but it’s pretty awesome to see them flying in high definition .

For Sweden > Thomas Donohue 09/15/2020 at 09:24

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I see you are a man of culture as well

Thomas Donohue > RacinBob 09/15/2020 at 11:21

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My younger self just wanted to fly around the fields of France and blow shit out of the sky, or bomb it.

( My older self still pretty much wants to do the same thing, just with better graphics and scotch.)

Thomas Donohue > For Sweden 09/15/2020 at 11:23

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Even when I migrated to  XBOX, I chose the green fields of France.

For Sweden > Thomas Donohue 09/15/2020 at 11:24

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You can also buy a Baron and strap some bombs to the wings

ttyymmnn > RacinBob 09/15/2020 at 12:08

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It really is interesting to see how the Luftwaffe and the Allies went in different directions. The Germans chose not to develop heavy bombers in large numbers, but that is largely due to the death of Walther Wever, the Luftwaffe Chief of Staff. Like Mitchell, he was a disciple of Douhet, but those ideas died with him and the Luftwaffe was taken over by WWI fighter pilots. And despite all of the whiz-bang jets and rocket planes, Germany fought the war with 1930s-era warplanes. The Americans in particular brought the prop plane to its zenith during the war through continual development. Though the B-17, like many German aircraft, was essentially a 1930s aircraft, Boeing kept it relevant with upgrades. And of course, they topped the world at the time with the B-29. 

RacinBob > ttyymmnn 09/15/2020 at 13:31

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Part of the German mindset was that they didn’t expect a war needing strategic bombing. Hitler and the airforce were in love with dive bombing/ tactical bombing. That was probably correct in that were Germany to be in a war where they needed strategic bombers, that was was probably a loser for them anyway.

Also, in Luftwaffe they did an examination of “was it a mistake for Germany to not have a long range heavy”. The conclusion was two fold, first was that the time to do that development was in the mid to late 30's (like US) and their industry had its plate to full to do it. Also that heavy bombers needed 4 engines and their calculus was that why build 4 engine bombers when dive bombing could be done with one and two engine bombers.  Also the point was they could not spare the engine production. Bottom line was what happened in Germany was what in line with Hitler’s narrative. And the narrative was the airforce existed to support the Army and tactical needs.   

gmporschenut also a fan of hondas > RacinBob 09/16/2020 at 21:52

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additionally heavy long range bombers only work when you have a bunch of them and it really is a major commitment of fuel and equipment and manpower . There was a stat somewhere that said 1 US 1k bomber raid every few days would have used all of germanys aviation fuel during that same time period .